The John Ashworth Interview
“I met John Ashworth in Scotland sometime in the 90s. Then again in California more recently. I called him for a catch-up!”
Morning John! How is it today out in sunny Southern California?
Actually, it’s drizzly - kinda like Scottish weather. More like what you’re used to...
Thanks for reminding me!
So, let’s go back to the beginning… You were a California kid, right, growing up at the time of the Beach Boys and The Byrds? What was life like as a kid?
I was born in LA but grew up in San Diego County in a little town called Escondido. It was a great place to live; idyllic really! Great weather, lots of sports, music, all that sort of stuff. The 70s was definitely the Golden Age of Rock - Led Zeppelin, Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Jethro Tull and Aerosmith. I loved it all!
What were your ambitions back then - to become a pilot? A pirate? Hedge-fund manager?
None of that stuff!
I was a golf nut even from an early age. I grew up playing at a course called San Lewis Ray Downs. My dad was a school teacher so he would play at the weekends and throughout the summer months. So at that time, I would spend the entire day on the golf course.
Basketball and golf! They were my two sports. I really didn’t have any ambition beyond that. As a teenager, I thought I might be good enough to pursue a Tour Pro-life. But it wasn’t until I played in college at the University of Arizona, I realised it wasn’t for me. I didn’t think I was good enough and to be honest, I wasn’t sure if the lifestyle suited me.
Who were your favourite golfers at that time?
I would say, Ben Crenshaw, Johnnie Miller and Arnie Palmer for sure; he was probably Number 1. I wasn’t really a Jack Nicklaus fan because he won too much and beat Arnie. He was just too good so I was in the camp that was routing for the underdogs.
And what did you think about what the guys were wearing at that time? Were you even conscious of it?
Yeah, I was! Honestly, I didn’t like golf clothes at all at that time. Growing up in the 70s in Southern California, I was as much more influenced by the ‘surf culture’. I was wearing brands like Hang 10 or OP and would wear those brands to play golf. Even more fashion brands like Alexander Julian were good. I was more into European or surf brands than I was golf brands.
THE ASHWORTH YEARS
So you single-handedly set about saving the world from checked pants and screaming polyester shirts by adding your name to one of the world’s largest, most influential golf apparel companies? How did it all come about?
I wasn’t planning it. I got out of school with a degree in agronomy, turf grass management and thought “I didn’t want to be a tour pro but I did want to be around golf.”
I could maybe be a golf course designer or course superintendent or in that field, you know. Then a buddy of mine that I grew up with, Mark Wiebe who was a much better golfer than me decided to try becoming a Tour Pro so he asked me if I would caddie for him which I did. He then went to Tour School and got his card. I caddied for him for about a year in 1984.
There wasn’t a lot of money in it and after a year I thought, “I don’t want to do this for the rest of my life.”
Mark had a sponsor, a guy called Jerry Montiel who was very entrepreneurial and was starting a sporting goods store in Denver, Colorado. I was his first employee and became the manager as well as the buyer. I bought all the golf clothing and equipment but, unfortunately, the economy at the time was not very good. He decided to close down the stores and asked me to help him go through that process.
“Golf clothing is terrible! There’s nothing I would want to wear”
“If you do that,” he said, “we’ll figure out another business to start.” I was 26 at the time and Jerry asked me, “What would you do? Where’s the opportunity out there?” I said, “Golf clothing is terrible! There’s nothing I would want to wear. I would start my own clothing company.” And that’s how it started!
How did you go about it? Did you just tell other designers and clothing manufacturers what you were looking for?
I didn’t know what I was doing really. First I knew I had to move away from Denver - either to LA or New York. I decided on LA as I felt more comfortable being in California. Also, I had a friend that had a girlfriend who was a designer so I hired her to get my first ideas on paper. It was a ‘school of hard knocks’! I didn’t have any sort of manual. I went to the California Market Center which quartered a lot of clothing vendors and trim vendors and just started asking as many questions as I could!
Who else was making golf apparel at that time? It wasn’t the big companies such as Callaway or Nike. They weren’t into apparel at that time, right?
No! It was a small, cottage industry which in a way was pretty lucky for me. We got our feet on the ground and got organised way before the big boys got involved. I then went and spoke with Fred Couples and John Cook and told them what I was doing and asked them if they wanted to be part of it. I couldn’t give them cash but I could give them shares in the company.
So I struck a deal with both Freddie and John!
Was having Fred Couples sporting your brand a big influence on Ashworth?
Oh yeah! For sure! He was a huge influence! You know, he had won only once before he started wearing Ashworth. In 1991 he won a couple more times then in 1992 he won The Masters. That was it! By that time, we had figured a few things out and were a lot more organised. Things started going crazy at that point and for the next three or four years, we just kept doubling in size.
You couldn’t have picked a better ‘influencer’ at that time. What was Freddie Couples like? Is he as ‘laid-back’ as he seems?
Yeah, Freddie’s a super-nice guy. He’s sort of an enigma though. I became friends with him but I never really got close to him. I knew I had to give him his space. He was getting pulled in so many directions at that time. But yeah, he’s a lovely guy. He’s very nice in person.
OK, so Ashworth became the biggest brand in golf clothing and it seemed like you could do no wrong. Then you ran into conflict with your own company. What happened there?
Yes, 11 years after I started it, I left the company. To be honest, I was a little burnt out. To go from being a 26-year-old kid with no idea where I was going to running this multi-million dollar enterprise was pretty intense. When I left, Ashworth was doing $90 million in revenue annually. There weren’t many dull moments in there, you know! It was full-on! It took a lot of energy and a lot of work to do that.
Hindsight’s a great thing, right? There was a group of factors that made me leave. I was interested in taking the company to the next level which I believed was building a ‘lifestyle’ around golf, something that would put us at the very heart of the game here in the US and around the world.
I got interested in a project to bring back two ‘lost’ golf courses in East Lothian in Scotland that had been abandoned during World War II. They were right next to Muirfield, the Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers in the village of Gullane. The plan was to restore them and create a golf retreat with a great little boutique hotel.
I thought, if we could put the Ashworth flag behind something like that, it would be an international statement that would resonate around the world, not just in America. I put it before the board of directors and they thought I was crazy!
At the same time we were bringing in a Chief Officer of Operations who was more of a ‘bean counter’ and he and I just didn’t get along. It was a typical corporate move. The board of directors were more on his side and finally, it got to a point where I thought “Hey, I’ve made more money than I ever thought I could. Life’s too short! I’m not happy so I’m going to resign and leave. That’s what I did!
THE SCOTLAND PROJECT
That must have been tough leaving your own company. But what happened with the Scottish project?
Yes. I kept going with that. It was pretty cool to be bringing back an old course that had been there a hundred years ago. The course was called Archerfield.
So, what finally happened with the Archerfield project?
After two years of working with the local East Lothian planning department and council, we were granted final planning permission on the project. Unfortunately, things went very wrong with a certain local financial partner and I ended up leaving the project. The cool thing is it all ended up coming down to earth although the architecture is not as good as it should have been in the end.
It sounds like you enjoyed your time in Scotland, though. Did you?
I had a great time when I was in Scotland. It was like the ‘Field of Dreams’. I fell in love with the country, the culture and of course, the golf! Most of the villages in Scotland there have their own golf courses and everyone understands the etiquette and virtues of the game. They all have a common understanding and respect for golf. It’s so much different than here in the States. The people are great! Scotland just has a deeper culture.
What's your favourite golf course there?
The Old Course in St Andrews has to be right up there. Muirfield too! I absolutely loved it. The same can be said for Gullane Number 1.
Alright! Let’s bring it up-to-date. You’re back in the business of providing us with fine golf apparel with a new brand called Linksoul. What motivated you to get back into the golf clothing industry?
I felt like I still wanted to express certain things. I enjoy the creative process and I felt there was still a niche in clothing that I’d like to address. It seems like there’s a ‘golf uniform’ out there and it doesn’t necessarily resonate with everyone. There is still plenty of room for a brand like Linksoul. I think the creativity we bring to the game can also be expressed in the clothes we wear and that’s where Linksoul is coming from. It’s a different angle; it’s more recreational. I think that’s really important.
Would you say the clothing business is a lot different today?
Yes, I suppose it's a lot different. My approach has been different also. I don't know. I kind of have blinders on and don't really see what anybody else is doing. I enjoy the process of making clothes that are not just for golf but multifunctional and super-comfortable.
I also like to shine a light on all the positive aspects of golf so if what we do helps, that’s great. I think the world's a better place the more people that want to play golf. I feel like golf is a positive influence at a deeper level. Maybe that’s idealistic but what the heck!
Let’s talk about the day-to-day LinkSoul operation. I know your sister Mary and brother Hank are involved as well as a bunch of your friends. How did that come about?
I worked with Hank and Mary at Ashworth and know how dedicated and hard-working they are and what they are capable of doing. I think it's great that they want to do it because I know they've got my back and I know I can trust them. My nephew, Geoff Cunningham is actually my co-founder and partner in the company and an extremely talented artist and designer. The Linksoul Company has a very strong family connection.
Oh - how old is he? Geoff?
He’s probably 46 now. As a kid, he worked in the warehouse at Ashworth and then went to Art School in Italy as well as spending some time over in Scotland with me. Also, in between the Ashworth and Linksoul years, he worked with me to set up a brand called ‘Fidra' with the surf-wear company Quiksilver. I brought him in to help me and that’s how he learned about the clothing business.
So tell me what it’s like to work in the Linksoul offices. Is it a ‘fun’ place?
Yeah, people love working for our company. We’re about as modern as it gets in terms of management style inasmuch as the roles and responsibilities are clearly defined and we get the job done. But for instance, we have mandatory ‘Golf Friday’ where we close the shop on a Friday afternoon and everyone goes out and plays 9-holes at Goat Hill Park which is just about a mile away.
I met you at Goat Hill Park last year, a great little neighbourhood public course that you saved from the developers. How’s that going?
It’s ticking along. We’re in the black now and it’s gradually picking up. It’s been a great experience. The Goat Hill Park project is a testament that a community can come together to save a ‘green space’. It also shows the importance of a golf course being positioned as a ‘park’ - meaning that it can act as a hub for the community.
We alerted the narrative and expectations. We don’t have a dress code, we allow people to bring dogs, we play music around the clubhouse area, we have a disc golf course and we have a 3-hole ‘kids course’ where kids play free. We’re the home of the local North County Junior Golf Association, we’ve started a Caddie and Leadership program for the kids of the community and we’re accessible for parties and weddings and non-golf functions. Our motto is ‘World Class-Working Class’…We need more Goat Hill Parks all across the world!!
What’s on the horizon? Do you have any more projects you want to get involved with?
I’m happy these days. I’m plenty busy. If I was going to put energy into anything, it would be more projects like Goat Hill Park. Public golf courses that people can afford and that are accessible to kids are really important. Sometimes those courses are maybe not managed or maintained properly. It’ll be 5 years since we took over Goat Hill Park and we’ve gained the experience so I suppose getting involved with similar projects might be a driving force in years to come. All I need is a benevolent billionaire to see the same thing. There’s gotta be one out there so I’m putting the vibe out.
I’ll see if I can find one for you. It’s been a pleasure!
